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Don’t Assume

While debating politial things with Erik of Freedomdown.net the other day, I made some incorrect assumptions. A transcript (minor edits for clarity) may illustrate this point:

Ryan: It’s sad that you don’t know what the Clinton thing was about. But I don’t really blame you – most people have no idea what it was about. They think that it was about the blowjob.
Erik: You really like to take the high and righteous stand, don’t you?

Well, long story short, I was wrong. Erik did know what the impeachment was about, minus the legalise:

Erik: The first was about how he lied to the federal grand jury, where he swore to tell the truth
Ryan: Which is a crime called…?
Erik: I believe lying under oath, though he was never prosocuted.
Ryan: Its called “perjury.” Its a felony. But do go on.
Erik: the second was that he interfered with a federal invesitgation, tried to get witnesses to lie, and I believe he destoyed documents.
Ryan: Which is another felony, called, “Obstruction of Justice.”

So, while Erik’s responses initially made me think that he didn’t know what was up, my assumptions were proven to be quite wrong. Howevwer, it all ended up being neither here nor there. The crux of the whole debate came down to this:

Erik: Ryan, I know what Clinton did was illegal, but it hurt no one. Bush’s lies hurt over 10,000 inocent civilians.

And, I have noted upon reflection, even assuming that both sentences are true, Bush did nothing illegal. Because, as Erik and I did agree:

Ryan: But its not illegal to lie to the public on TV, or Dan Rather would be in jail.
Erik: I never said it was…

So, we have two assertations here.

  1. Clinton broke the law, but he didn’t hurt anyone
  2. Bush hurt over 10,000 innocent cilvilians, without breaking any laws

No wonder why everyone is so pissed off at Bush. But assuming that these assertations are true, just because they are so oft repeated, is likely a mistake (please refer to the title of this post).

To be continued…?

7 Responses to “Don’t Assume”

  1. Erik Says:

    Though this is a little off topic I just wanted to tell you buys about a site I found a while ago.
    http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
    Current min civilian count: 13086

  2. Arcanius Says:

    Not off topic at all, Erik. Thanks for the link.

  3. Dan Moretti Says:

    But what the body count forgets is that if Sadam was still in power, that civilian body count would be much higher.

  4. Erik Says:

    “The prospect of violent death is the latest burden for a people who suffered through decades of war and a brutal dictatorship under Saddam, whose regime has been accused by human rights groups of killing as many as 300,000 Iraqis deemed enemies.” (source 1)

    Saddam became President in 1979. (source 2)

    He was in power untill January 2002 (time of U.S. invasion), so now to a little math.
    2002 – 1979 = 23 (years)
    300,000 / 23 = 13,043 (“Iraqis deemed enemies” killed)
    So that means that Saddam killed as many as 13,043, on average, every year of his dicatorship. Now these deaths were of people considered “Iraqis deemed enemies” which also includes legitamite exicutions. This was also only his time as president, he “took a leading role” in Iraqie government in 1968 (11 years earlier). (source 2)

    Now IBC states that as many as 15,149 civilians (source 3) have been killed in our war which started in March of 2003. so now some more math.
    15,149 / 1.5 = 10099
    I would also like to point out IBC’s estimates are relativly low compared to other sources, some of whome say more than 30,000 have been killed (source 1), but IBC only records viable evidence from well known news sources who can sometimes “forget” to report things.
    13,043 to 10099. Only 2944 diference. We sacrificed over 1,000 of our own men and women, and we can only do 2944 (22%) better than Saddam!

    1. http://www.rep-am.com/story.php?id=5988 (syndicated Associated Press)
    2. http://www.multied.com/Bio/people/sHussein.html
    3. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

    ENTIRE SOURCE: http://blog.freedomdown.net/index.php?p=31

  5. Dan Moretti Says:

    Unless I’m mistaken, that number will not be repeated over the course of 30 years. To even suggest that Bush is as bad as Saddam really makes me sick. He might not be very quick, but he is no Saddam.

  6. Arcanius Says:

    Erik – (and everyone else)

    WordPress has anti-comment-spamming controls, which I have set up to include holding for moderation comments with more than one lilnk. This makes it so you don’t have to read bunches of comments about online gambling places, porn sites, etc. It also means that you have to be patient when I’m not checking my email (like when I’m at a friends house, as I was this evening). I’ll approve the comments, just give me time.

    Just let me know which ones you want me to delete, if any.

  7. Erik Says:

    Soryy bout that Ryan, I accidently kept clicking not understanding why it would not take. Please delete 5, 6, and 7.

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